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Adolph Greiner, Seraing, Belgium:—I have nothing special to add to Professor Hubert's paper except to say that there are some little things that it would be well to have corrected when the paper comes to be published. In dealing with the thermal efficiency of the engine, you will find that the 29.84 per cent. was a very high one. Professor Hubert has forgotten those engines built under the Cockerill type, but he has referred to them in Appendix 11. At our works at Cockerill we have built 63 engines, giving 63,000 h.p., and the other companies who have received licenses have built 113 engines, making 103,000 h.p., and aggregating 176 engines and 166,000 h.p. Eight years ago I had the pleasure of giving to the Institute the results obtained up to that time. Since then a good many engines have been constructed. In 1898 I thought a blast-furnace producing 100 tons of pig iron would allow 3,000 h.p. Professor Witz and Professor Hubert show that with the same production of pig the new engines take 3,800 h.p. out of the gas. At present at Cockerill we make 700 to 800 tons of pig iron per day, and we hope to have 26,000 h.p. in a few years. At present we have only half of that in gas-engines, but we hope to have in five or six years all the gas out of these furnaces to the number of 25,000 or 26,000 h.p. Tom WEstGarth, Middlesbrough, England :—My contribution is not a paper in the ordinary sense of the word, because I am sure you will agree with me that what I have written is only supplementary to the other two papers. The notes are schedules of the larger-size gas-engines built by British engine-makers, of 500 h.p. and upwards. If you look at the schedules you will find that in England gas-engines have become quite ordinary motors for a good many purposes. It was at first thought that gas-engines were troublesome, and ill-

Jan 1, 1907

R. V. NorHis, Wilkes-Barre, Pa. (communication to the Secretary*) : The electric-haulage plant of the Short Mountain Colliery of the Lykens Valley Coal Co., mentioned by Messrs. Stoek and Harris as the earliest underground electric plant in the United States (and, I believe, the second in the world), was started July 23, 1887. The plant, designed by W. M. Schlessinger, consists of two motor-cars, each weighing about 5 tons and equipped with a 32-h.p. Union Electric Go. motor. The original general construction of the motor-cars is shown by Mr. Stoek; but they were rebuilt, the same year, with some important improvements in design; and, except for strengthening the frames and replacing the original pig-iron weights by a casting, they have not been greatly changed since that time. The generating-plant consists of two Union Electric Co. dynamos of 65-h.p. each, driven by an old 18- by 48-in. plain slide-valve engine; the ordinary voltage is 450 and the amperage varies from 40 to 200; the average indicated h.p. of the engine is about 75, with a steam-consumption of about 75 lb. per i.h.p. per hour; and as the cost of steam at this colliery is 8.11 cents per 1,000 lb.,the steam-cost per day is about $4.56.

Jan 1, 1904

David T. Day, Washington, D. C.: The paper of Mr. Adams is chiefly valuable because it emphasizes the ease with which petroleum can migrate in the earth's crust. Concerning this migration, I have little faith in the rôle of water as a carrier of gaseous or liquid hydrocarbon, suspended or mixed in the water in any way. My lack of faith is due to observation of

Jan 1, 1903

R. W. Raymond, New Pork, N. Y.:—I think Mr. Bache has put his finger on the chief source of the danger of dust-, or gas-and-dust, explosions in collieries. 1 mean the persistent determination of the miners' unions to increase their weekly wages by the excessive use of explosives. This would not be feasible if coal-miners were paid by the day; but this form of payment is, for many reasons, not economically practicable; and the universal practice is to pay for the winning of coal according to the quantity produced. If the miner, by using a large amount of powder, can throw down a large amount of coal without corresponding labor on his own part in undercutting and drilling, he will receive more money for less work, provided he is paid for everything—merchantable coal, worth-less dust, slate, and " bone "—resulting from such a method. My attention was called to this matter many years ago by an admirable report of Prof. W. B. Potter, a past- President of the Institute, on the conditions obtaining in this respect in the Illinois coal-field. It was made very clear in that report that considerations of danger to workmen or loyalty to employers could not be relied upon to prevent miners from employing this perilous and wasteful method of increasing their own immediate receipts. So far as I know, only three remedies have been attempted, namely: the enforcement of discipline as to the methods of mining; the refusal to pay for dust, etc., produced by the miners'methods; and restriction upon the use of explosives, effected by requiring the miner to purchase them from the employer, at a price so high as to make it unprofitable for him to use them in excess. All of these attempted remedies have encountered the bitter opposition of the miners' unions. The enforcement of discipline has become almost impossible, if discipline be (as it should be) understood to involve punishment for the violation of rules when no disaster has followed. I

Jan 1, 1910

Charles T. Malcolmson, Chicago, Ill.:—Mr. Blauvelt's admirable paper is a valuable contribution to the literature on briquetting of coal in this country. It should have a special significance for those interested in the commercial development of the coal-briquette industry. I believe that the data included in Mr. Blauvelt's paper will be particularly useful because they represent costs taken from a briquette-plant in actual operation. There are several points touched on in Mr. Blauvelt's paper which may bear comment in the way of emphasis rather than of criticism. In the first place, he has stated a fact which becomes axiomatic to any one who has had any experience in the design, building, or operation of coal-briquette plants, and that is, that the press is only one factor in the successful opera-

Jan 1, 1911

W. Morton Webb, Germiston, Transvaal, South Africa (communication to the Secretary*):—The experience of Mr. Boeh-mer in the Leadville district and his reputation as an engineer assure the interest of anything he may write on the ore-bodies of that district; and all engineers who have operated in Leadville will agree that the theory of the origin of the Leadville deposits, as given by Mr. Emmons in his famous monograph, does not adequately explain the genesis of all the deposits. The solutiou of the problem does not, however, appear to be quite so simple as Mr. Boehmer would make it; and the advance pamphlet issued by the U. S. Geological Survey, pending the completion of the main report, shows that there is still much ground for controversy. No doubt the later eruptive0 had a greater influence on the deposition of the ore-bodies than was thought at the time of the first investigation by the Survey; but it has always appeared to me that the influence exerted by these dikes mas more in the nature of a physical than a chemical one. The weight of evidence in recent years is mostly in the direction of ascension rather than lateral secretion; and one of the strongest evidences is the fact that most of the ore-bodies lie under one of the comparatively impervious layers which help to make up the structure of these hills.

Jan 1, 1911

HeRbert A. MeGRaw, San Luis de la Paz, Guanajuato, Mex. (communication to the Secretary*) :—Although Mr. Bordeaux prefaces his paper with the statement-that it is a general outline of practice in the Republic, many of his statements seem to be made from the view-point of a particular case, which does not always agree with general practice. For the purpose of calling attention to some of these variations, I respectfully offer the following comments: The operation of crushing and grinding is performed by so many different methods and systems that it is useless to select any one as the standard. However, primary crushing in rock-breakers followed by stamps is thus far so general that it might be so classified. Whether or not it is the best way, is open to question. Regrinding may be performed by any of the various types of Chilean mills, Huntington mills, or similar machines, or the material may be taken directly from the stamps and delivered to the tube-mills. Mr. Bordeaux's statement that " the slimes can be treated only by decantation; the new Butters slime-filter, as used in Nevada, does not seem to be successful with silver-ores," is surely an error. All over Mexico many of the purely silver-ores are being successfully handled by the Butters or similar filters, such as the Moore and the Burt filters, and a letter to the manufacturers of these filters will undoubtedly bring a list of the silver-ores now being successfully treated in this way. The statement that crushing silver-ores in solution is impossible is equally erroneous. Most modern mills crush the ore in solution, in some cases containing as much as 0.12 per cent, of KCN. I cannot for the moment recall any modern mill in Mexico which does not follow this practice. There may be some reason for it in particular instances, but, generally speaking, the practice is to crush in solution. Care in installation avoids any mechanical loss of cyanide, and the chemical loss is so small as to be negligible.

Jan 1, 1910

A. H. Bromly, Zihuatanejo, Guerrero, Mexico (communication to the Secretary*):—The following criticism of what "is offered as a summary which may be found useful by mining engineers," is not dictated by any captious spirit, but in the intereet of historical and scientific accuracy. The States of Queretaro and Oaxaca have produced sufficient silver to warrant more extended notice. Referring to Pachuca, State of Hidalgo, the eomewhat loose and inexact statement is made that "the ore-depdsit is an andesite, intermixed with quartz-veins, rich from the surface." A better description mould be,—the ore-deposits consist of quartz-veins in andesite. It is notable that many of the rich shoots worked in recent days did not come to surface. In consequence, Pachuca is often quoted by the ill-informed as a camp in which values improve with depth, the truth being that the veins carry shoots, or clavos, some of which were exposed at surface and some not. The name of " electric plow," applied to the mechanical stirrer of recent use, is certainly not to be recommended. The stirrer, or agitator, consists essentially of a traversing gang-plow, operated by power through shafting; drums, and wire-rope. The fact that in certain plants the motive-power used is electricity does not make it an electric plow. Such a name suggests a machine of which the motor is an essential and integral part; which is not so in this case. A lathe in a factory driven by water-power is not called a hydraulic lathe. My experience agrees with Dr. Raymond's note as to azulapue, which in some districts is also applied to blue copper carbonate. The El Oro, Esperanza, and Mexico mines should be allocated to the State of Mexico; the Dos Estrellas being in Michoacan, as stated. The El Oro quartz certainly does not appeal to me

Jan 1, 1910

William Kent, New York, N. Y.:—The Institute may congratulate itself on the opportunity of reading the splendid address of President Brunton. It is an admirable summary of the progress that has been made in the mining and metallurgical arts in recent years. The paper rightly gives the chief credit for this progress to the aid which has been rendered to these arts by the advances in mechanics, chemistry, and electricity. It is notable that most of the headings in Mr. Brunton's address refer to the work of the mechanical engineer, the electrical engineer, and the chemist, rather than to that of the specialist in mining-operations. It seems that the most successful mining engineer of the present day is the one who makes the most intelligent application of the inventions and designs of engineers and others who are not directly engaged in mining. A tabulation of the headings of the address, grouped as below, shows this most clearly. Work of the Mechanical Engineer—Rock-drills, hoisting-machinery, tramming, pumping, ventilation, dredging, Sampling, concentration, briquetting, fume-recovery. Work of the Electrical Engineer—Electric machinery for hoisting, pumping, tramming, lighting and signaling, electric transmission, electric smelting. Work of the Chemist and Metallurgist—Explosives, chlorina-tion, cyanidation, roasting, lead-smelting, and copper-smelting. Work of the Geologist—Economic geology. Work of the Mining Engineer—Mine-mapping, surface-mining, timbering, tunneling; and planning and supervision of the work in general. The mining engineer of the present day, who is in responsible charge of a large plant, finds his chief work not in doing those things he was trained to do as a specialist, but in making use of the knowledge of geologists, chemists, and electrical and

Jan 1, 1910

DR. PeRsifor Frazer, Philadelphia, Pa. (communication to the Secretary):* Mr. Campbell's very interesting contribution, after complimentary mention, finally decides against the acceptance of the classification proposed by me in a paper bearing the same title and read at the Wilkes-Barre meeting, May, 1877.2 That paper was written primarily for the Second Geological

Jan 1, 1906

Mr. A. Bement, Chicago, Ill. (communication to the Secretary*) :—Mr. Campbell, in proposing his method of sampling coal-seams, has rendered an important service in insisting on the presentation of an adequate history of the sample; and it is to be hoped that his suggestion will meet with further recommendation. In my opinion it is fully as important that a complete description of the sample and the conditions surrounding its taking be given, as the results of the analysis itself; and if such should become standard practice, coal-analysis would assume greater value. As it is, the published data are very confusing, and only to an extremely small extent are they really useful. The method suggested by Mr. Campbell, however, cannot have a general application; for example, in the Eastern Interior coal-basin, particularly at the present time, the output consists largely in grades other than mine-run, which in Illinois, for the year 1905, was only about 24 per cent. of the total product; and inasmuch as Mr. Campbell's method of sampling cannot give values for any other grade than mine-run, my contention that, at best, it can have but a limited application, is apparent. To illustrate the argument, there are two coal-seams, with the characteristics of which I am particularly familiar; each seam, as it lies in the ground, contains almost exactly 10 per cent. of ash; the lump coal from one of these seams ranges from 10 to 11 per cent. of ash, but from the other seam it does not average more than 6 per cent., although, as before mentioned, the average percentage of ash in the full seam is the same for each case. A careful and proper sampling of coal-seams, to be followed by analyeis, is to be commended in connection with all investigation; in fact, it should precede any careful study. A serious error, however, may be made in attempting to use such results to set values on the product as shipped or received. The only

Jan 1, 1906

Mansfield MERRIMAN,Lehigh University, South Bethlehem, Pa. (communication to the Secretary*):—The formulas established by Mr. Campbell require the use of tables in order to take into account the influence of manganese on the tensile strength of steel. On examining these tables I find that the quantities given therein may be expressed by simple algebraic forms, so that formulas for tensile strength may be written which can be used without the help of tables. Referring to the case where the carbon is determined by

Jan 1, 1906

Edward Halse, Puerto Berrio, Colombia, So. Amer. (communication to the Secretary*): The Taviche mining-district is generally known as " Taviches," being named from the two villages called respectively San Pedro Taviche and San Jero-nimo Taviche. It is so called by Jose G. Aguilera, in his paper on the Geographical and Geological Distribution of the Mineral Deposits of Mexico;' and in published reports by the late N. W. Rudston Read ;2 and by Juan de Dios Villarello3 The region is a large one, measuring about 24 miles long and 7 miles wide. Dr. Chance, in his interesting paper, tells us very little about the nature of the ores, and, with regard to the geology of the district, contents himself with observing that " the country, as a rule, consists of eruptive rocks; and no evidences of sedimentary strata appear near the mines." The latter part of the above statement is hardly correct. The formation is mainly

Jan 1, 1906

W. L. SaundeRs, New York City (communication to the Secretary*):—Notwithstanding the sweeping statements made by Mr. Clarke in this paper, the friends of compressed air are not dismayed. There is no war between electricity and compressed air. Each one has its field of usefulness, and in that field each is supreme. In spite of commercial interests, in spite of prejudices and the enthusiasm of the inventor, the thing that is best will survive and flourish. At least ten years ago, our engineering papers contained large advertisements and pages of reading-matter about the application of electricity to mines, recording the introduction of numerous rock-drilling plants, and claiming that the problem had been solved, greatly to the advantage of the miner and with promise of large profits to the manufacturers of electrical apparatus. Edison and Thomson labored to apply electricity to mines, and each believed that the probabilities of success were great. This was the period of the solelloid rock-drill, which mas admirably suited, theoretically, to the percussive principle and in the development of which hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent without satisfactory result. I have searched in vain for a standard mining equipment where electric rock-drills are in constant, commercial operation. During a recent trip made from New York to California, I visited most of the important mines of the West and failed to discover a single electric equipment, so far as this class of mining-work is concerned. If any one will inform me where there exists today an electric-drilling equipment in constant service in mines in the United States, I shall be glad to receive the information. Mr. Clarke has been for some years an active and intelligent writer on the subject of electricity for mining. Whenever his

Jan 1, 1904

E. Windsor Richards, London, England:—In reading this paper the most interesting point to me mas the question of the maximum percentage of phosphorus allowable in the steel rail. Mr. Colby said, and we will all agree with him, that the engineer knew, and even a steel-rail maker grants that phosphorus is the most undesirable constituent of steel. We in England have been for a long time considering a specification for the supply of steel rails. This matter has been taken up by the Institution of Civil Engineers, the Mechanical Engineers, the Iron and Steel Institute, the Institute of Naval Architects, and the Electrical Engineers. Committees have been formed,and the whole matter has received most careful attention. They arrived at last at an analysis which I will read: " The carbon is to be from 0.35 to 0.5 per cent.; the manganese from 0.7 to 1.0 per cent.; the silicon, not to exceed 0.10 per cent.; phosphorus, 0.07; and sulphur, 0.07 per cent." As to the phosphorus, which is the most important point of all in the analysis, we have for many years, and indeed until very lately, always agreed to supply steel which would not contain above 0.06 per cent. of phosphorus. Iron-ores are not quite as good now as they were formerly, and the manufacturers at the meetings of the committees referred to, tried to obtain an increase in the allowance of phosphorus. They asked the Sub-committee to agree to 0.08 per cent. of phosphorus. They tried all they possibly could to obtain that; but they failed. English engineers in Great George Street and all over England, representing the important Associa tions I have mentioned, would only agree to 0.07 per cent. and that is the maximum allowance of phosphorus. Mr. Colby is an able advocate, but with all his ability he would not have been able to persuade the English engineers to agree to 0.08 per cent.

Jan 1, 1907

RUfUs J. Foster, Scranton, Pa. (communication to the Secretary*) :—In answer to one of the inquiries made of Mr. Conner, and as a matter of historical record, I beg to say that the idea of supporting the strata over worked-out areas in coalmines by flushing the openings full of culm originated and was put into actual practice by the late R. C. Luther, a former member of the Institute, at that time Chief Mining Engineer, and later General Manager, of the Philadelphia & Reading Coal & Iron Co. In the early 80's the Philadelphia & Reading Coal & Iron Co. purchased from Messrs. Hecksher & Co. the Eohinoor colliery, situated in the western part of the borough of Shenan-doah, Pa. On taking possession of the colliery the Philadelphia & Reading Coal & Iron Co. made a conlplete resurvey of the mine-workings, giving an absolutely correct map which showed not only the plan of the mine-workings, but also every improvement on the surface over the workings, and the marked features of the surface of the ground. Tidal elevations were shown at every eurvey-station in the mine and on the surface, so that, as is the case with all the maps of the company, contour-maps of either the surface or the bottom of any coal-seam, or geological cross-sections, could be constructed directly from the information on the mine-maps. In a cornparatively short time after the company took possession of the colliery, the workings which extended under the western portion of the borough of Shenandoah began to cause trouble and damage dwellings and other buildings in that section of the town. The lots in this section had been sold, in many cases, to individuals by the Gilbert & Shaefer Estate, owners of the coal-lands on which the colliery was located. In

Jan 1, 1912

Albert SaUveur, Cambridge, Mass. (communication to the Secretary*):—On close examination I think it will be found that the evidence by which Mr. Corson claims to have shown the inaccuracy of a statement I made a few years ago, is far from convincing. This statement is: "Hot work as such has no influence upon the structure of the metal. Indirectly, however, by retarding crystallization until a lower temperature is reached, it may influence its structure most decidedly ; but the same results could be accomplished by heat treatment alone, i.e., by re-heating the unworked metal to the temperature from which the worked piece was allowed to cool undisturbedly." The Melallographist, vol. ii., p. 267 (under the head of "Changes of Structure Brought About by Work"). Of the two pieces of steel tested by Mr. Corson, one was worked and finished at a a cherry-red" and the other reheated to a cherry-red, and the assumption was made that in both cases the temperature was about 715' C., although no pyrometric device was used to record it. The possibility of considerable difference in temperature alone is so great as to invalidate Mr. Corson's inferences. The apparent temperature,

Jan 1, 1907

Frank Firmstone, Easton, Pa. (communication to tlie Secretary*) :—Mr. Dilworth's formulas hnd tables are of course correct, and the extillction will occur as calculated, provided the nioney periodically set aside for sinking-fund be really invested and the interest compounded as assumed in the calculation. Actually, in alrilost all cases, such funds are used " in the business," in which case, in addition to the periodical charges for principal of the fund, additional charges must he made at the end of each period to cover the interest and compound interest on previous charges. The periodical charge for sinking-fund thus becomes a varyillg and continually increasing one until the date of extinction. On many accounts it scems more natural and conveniellt to make the extinction by a fixed periodical charge under the legal rule for partial payments,

Jan 1, 1911

John Langton, New York, N. Y. (communication to the Secretary*):—In Mr. Firmstone's discussion (Trans., xli., 912) the formula he gives for the periodical payment—his equation (2)—may be simplified in form. The expression given by Mr. Firmstone is : q=S(l+ r) 1-(1+r)-(1+r) r which is a simpler form to use in calculations. Where S= principal to bc extinguished. Q = periodical payment or charge for sinking-fund, r = rate of interest per period (i. e., interest on $1 per period). n = number of payments or periods. Kent's Mechanical Enyineer's Pocket Book, under the heading Annuities, equation No. 5, gives : " The annuity which $1 will purchase for any number of ytlars n is * Received Jiily 16, 1911.

Jan 1, 1912

James DouGlas, New York, N. Y. (communication to the Secretary*):—In my paper on the Conservation of Natural Resources, I referred to the slow replacement of bee-hive ovens by the by-product ovens as a most notable instance of waste. And I quoted from Mr. Parker's report for 1906 an explanation given by him in accounting for the small production of by-product coke. It was that the market for the by-products of the coke-ovens was so limited that some of the ovens constructed were out of operation. His report on the manufacture of coke in 1908' does not record an improvement, and attributes the strange fact that we alone, of all the industrial peoples, delay the adoption of this cardinal improvement from the continuance of the same almost inexplicable cause. To quote again from his report, he says (p. 241): "The year 1908 was not marked by any notable gain in the construction of byproduct coking plants, though some new work was done. There was a net increase

Jan 1, 1910