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'T. C. MERRIMAN, New Haven, Conn. (written discussion *).-This most interesting paper gives much carefully obtained and valuable data. However, there are two points in connection with the commercial application of such data that might possibly be a source of trouble and mis-understanding. In the first place, the examination of thin sections of annealed brass, subjected to standard Brinell test.(500 kg. on a 10-mm. diameter ball) at thicknesses from 0.075 to 0.150 in. (1.9 to 3.8 mm.) indicates that cold work has been performed on the specimen during the application of the load sufficient to extend way through the section, and have the hardness of the metal affected by the backing. If the usual steel support is used, this effect is very evident. If a piece of soft brass is used as a support, there is an indentation in the surface of the support accompanied by a bulge on the under side of the tested specimen opposite the impression made by the 10-mm. ball. The result is that Brinell specifications (governmental or otherwise) on stock for a certain purpose may not be fair in all cases, since manufacturers, owing to differences in equipment, etc., may not all use precisely the thickness and conditions of stock on which the Brinell specifications were based. This would mean that the government Brinell specification might not give them the temper of stock best suited for their manufacturing methods. The concluding paragraph of this paper, stating that "the hardness of cartridge brass may be determined with greater accuracy by the Brinell hardness measurement than by attempting to judge it from the grain size" appears to be in line with the movement of the last year or so among brass manufacturers toward substitution of the Brinell test for microscopic examination as an acceptance test on cartridge brass. The statement may he strictly true that the Brinell test is the best test for hardness, but it is not, as the statement might readily be construed, a sufficient test of suitable condition. For instance, some cartridge brass might accidentally have been overheated to a point where it would be distinctly unsafe to use for the manufacture of small arms cases and then be so rolled (reduction 3 to 5 per cent.) as to pass perfectly proper Brinell specifications. Under such conditions the microscope would reveal its unsuitability where the Brinell test had failed so to do.

Jan 4, 1919

EDWARD W. PARKER,* Philadelphia, Pa. (written discussion ?).-The two papers on coal-mine costs and pride fixing that Mr. Norris has contributed to the Transactions possess as much general interest and are of as much value to the coal-mining industry as any papers that have been presented in recent years. Until recently one of the troubles with the coal business, and especially the bituminous branch of it, has been that because of the lack of a uniform system of cost accounting (many operators, I regret to say, not having had any system at all), the industry as a whole may be said not to have known where it was at. The system adopted by the Federal Trade Commission may not be absolutely perfect but it has accomplished something in that it has compelled a uniform method of reporting and tabulating costs giving results of these compilations which are comparable. The Institute and the coal-mining industry owe a vote of thanks to, and of confidence in, Mr. Norris and his two associates on the Engineers Committee of the Fuel Administration, Messrs. Garnsey and Allport, for the great work they have done in interpreting the results compiled by the Federal Trade Commission, not to speak of the personal sacrifices made by them in giving their services to the government. Those who have read Mr. Norris' paper will probably join me in wishing he had brought out a little more fully the real meaning of the charts so far as they indicate the difference between the cost of producing a ton of anthracite and the price the operators receive for their product. Mr. Norris could have done this more satisfactorily than anyone else. It seems to me that particular attention should be drawn to the fact that, according to these charts, and the tables accompanying them, not less than 25 per cent. of the total output of anthracite, whether "company" or "individual," during the period covered by Mr. Norris' paper,

Jan 4, 1919

C. W. GOODALE,* Butte, Mont.-I notice Mr. Newton refers very briefly to the carbonate ores of manganese, rhodochrosite, but he does not go into any special description of the treatment of that material. In some of the veins in Butte, Mont., there is a large amount of rhodo-chrosite, and a large tonnage of that material has been shipped to the East for making ferromanganese. At the works of the Anaconda company at Great Falls they treated several thousand tons of this manganese ore, running about 37 to 38 per cent. manganese, in electric furnaces, giving a product of about 78 per cent. of manganese. But just at that time the demand for ferromanganese from the West was discontinued and the material, about 1000 tons of 78 per cent. manganese, is on hand at the works at Great Falls. With the higher-grade manganese ore, running, we will say, 37 or 38 per cent., there are large bodies of ore perhaps 20 or 25 per cent., but containing too much silica to be valuable in their present condition. Some efforts have been made for water concentration of that material, but owing to. there being only a difference of about 1 in the specific gravity of the quartz gangue and the manganese mineral, water concentration has offered some difficulties, I have been told, however, that some very satisfactory experiments have been made with magnetic concentration of this material. I think it is a new idea that this manganese ore can be treated successfully by magnetic concentration.

Jan 4, 1919

With the signing of the armistice on Nov. 11, the direction of the main concentration of effort of the United States was changed. In order to win the war, all industrial efforts had to be organized and centralized. With the war won and peace in sight, this centralization of effort stopped and the full play of individual initiative was allowed to resume its sway in the community. During this period of reversal of direction of effort, there was a natural loss of momentum and the United States, as well as the rest of the world, is in for a period of readjustment. The immense progress that was made in one direction under the stress of the necessities of war, which focused the energies of a nation in one direction, is an outstanding example of what can be accomplished if a community with many varying interests can be united on one objective which it desires to attain. The realization that the fusing of many interests into one stream of effort is difficult should not prevent us from taking the long view ahead that is necessary in order to be able to measure the progress made. If we don't have a mountain peak to guide us, we are very likely to run in circles in the plain without reaching the goal to which we strive. The most efficient development of natural resources is an ideal that, from a material point of view, appeals to the engineer. This ideal includes giving of opportunities to everyone to take a share in the development of these resources.. It also contemplates rewarding foresight

Jan 4, 1919

JESSE L. JONES,* Pittsburgh, Pa.-I would like to ask Miss Erskine if down-draft has been used in any of the foundries where heavy fumes have to be removed, instead of the overhead draft.? L. -ERSKINE.-The system of overhead draft to remove heavy fumes has been very much more successful. The entire efforts of the New Jersey Department of Labor in regard to stabilizing conditions in the foundry are the result of the physical examination of the foundryman himself on first-hand information as to the prevalence of the minor ailments and the bad timekeeping that naturally accompanies them. These ailments are a factor in not only increasing the labor turnover but in increasing the percentage of bad work as well. The physical exertion of the foundryman himself is of course an important factor. In certain standard shops the amount of energy expended runs from 11 to 13 tons of foot-pounds of energy a day. In certain shops on piece work, I found a record of the energy expended per day to run as high as 22 tons. In one shop, during the war period, the management established a bonus system, and the men increased their output from 60 to 100 molds a day. The result was an increase of some 60 per cent. in output, and an increase of 400 per cent. in defective castings. The question of the physical exertion in the unsanitary foundries, of course, is very much complicated by other factors, for which reason the department has devoted a good deal of attention to estimating what is a reasonable exertion in a sanitary, well ventilated foundry. We have met certain physical difficulties in the brass foundries that the iron foundries did not have. All that information is available through our Bureau of Industrial Information. The question of the physical energy exerted by the molder is found to have a very distinct bearing on the question of contracts, for the possibility of increasing production is balanced by the extra overhead involved. JESSE L. JONES.-I would like to ask if any evidence has been noticed of carbon-monoxid poisoning among the employees of the foundries.

Jan 4, 1919

A. SILVERMAN,* Pittsburgh, Pa.-Prof. Richards has described a very interesting process. In addition to the method described, electroplating and a number of other processes have been used. In one, the two metals were heated and united under hydraulic pressure; in a second, the steel was coated with an alloy, brass for example, and the molten copper cast around this. The process that I would like to bring to the attention of the metallurgists present consists simply of pouring molten copper, brass, or cupronickel around a clean red-hot steel billet. 'It is covered by the Roth patents. The 8-in. cylindrical billet containing about 70 per cent. steel (core) and 30 per cent. copper is hot drawn or rolled until several inches in diameter and afterward cold drawn or rolled to rod, wire of any desired diameter, or sheet. The wire is used for electrical conduits where conductivity and high tensile strength are required, also for the manufacture of cables and screen cloth. The sheet is employed for the manufacture of spouting, molding, shells, etc. The last application is particularly interesting. In testing rifle cartridges, which usually contain lead-filled copper noses, pine boards 1 in. thick, covered with ¼ -in. rawhide, are placed 1 ft. apart. The value of the cartridge depends on the number of boards penetrated by .the bullet. In government tests made with copper-coated steel noses (15 per cent. copper on either side of the steel) the penetrating power was found to be approximately double that of pure copper noses. The advantage of copper-coated steel over cupronickel lies in the fact that the- former does not require any special heat treatment during the punching. Rifle cartridges were prepared from copper-coated steel in a number of government arsenals. The value of the combination was attested by the awarding of a contract for the construction of a $3,300,000 plant. Unfortunately, the contract was signed on the day preceding the signing of. the armistice and was cancelled several days later. Tests were conducted for about 1 yr. before the contract was awarded to determine the value of this combination of metals. Since the war a number of cartridge and shell manufacturers have signified their intention of using copper-coated steel.

Jan 4, 1919

JESSE L. JONES,* Pittsburgh, Pa. (written discussion?).-The most important criterion on which judgment of the quality of manganese bronze can be based is its freedom from lead. Not over 0.03 per cent. of lead should be present in a good grade of manganese bronze. While it is not questioned that manganese bronze with a high tensile strength and considerable ductility can be made .from materials that will give a lead content of possibly 2 to 3 per cent., there is no doubt that such material, while it may machine readily, will be found to withstand the impact test very poorly, and hence be unsuited for high-grade engineering work. When lead is present in considerable amounts, it forms in small pools in the alloy and the material has little strength at these points; in fact, such spots in the metal are equivalent to nicks in a test bar as far as their effect on tensile strength is concerned. A further objection to a high lead content is the ease with which it oxidizes and its consequent tendency to produce dross. A second characteristic of a high-grade manganese bronze is a low content of manganese. This should not exceed 0.05 per cent.; in fact, very many of the best grades of manganese bronze show, on analysis, only a trace of manganese or no manganese whatever. Manganese is a deoxidizer and its ready oxidation protects the other metals of the alloy; but if it is present in large amounts it will produce considerable manganese dioxide, which does not separate readily from the molten alloy and may produce black specks or drossy spots and render the obtaining of clean castings difficult. Aluminum should be present in a good grade of manganese bronze in only very small amounts. A content of 0.10 per cent. aluminum is ample. Larger amounts have a tendency to increase the shrinkage of the alloy, to give the ingots and castings a white, scruffy appearance, and to prevent the beautiful, golden, oxidization color characteristic of high-grade manganese bronze and a most excellent indication of quality. The work that the author of the paper has done is valuable from a con- servation standpoint, and it will supplement, in a marked degree, the advances that have been made by a number of manufacturers of manganese bronze in utilizing the turnings from this material. A number of firms have succeeded in making a very good grade of ingot metal from turnings and other light scrap, obtaining a tensile strength and elongation

Jan 4, 1919

ROBERT PEELE, * New York, N. Y.-I should like to ask Mr. Neale how the members of the production committees at the individual mines, who came from the mine workers themselves, were chosen or appointed; also from what classes of employees they usually came? J. B. NEALE.-In the union fields, they were chosen by a local. In the non-union fields, they were chosen either by the men in mass meeting or by the company officials. The last way was very unsatisfactory because it gave the men an opportunity to say that they were going to be passed upon as to whether they were slackers or not, by men chosen by the company. When they were chosen by the locals or at mass meetings of the workers, the appointments have been very much more satisfactory. R. D. HALL, ? New York, N. Y.-The matter of inefficiency on the part of the operator is one that I think we may well take into account, because there is a very large inefficiency on the part of the coal operator; it has arisen from reasons almost beyond his control and will continue for these same reasons. It is no use arguing a moral responsibility on the part of the operator, when you make efficiency very largely a loss to the operator who puts it in force. If you ask a man working on a clay wage to work with more efficiency. he says, "Well, I may do it or I may not," it all depends how he feels, but he does not lose anything financially by not working hard. If you ask the man who is working by the ton to put out more tons, he makes a profit by putting out more tons. How is it with the operator? If he gives a man all the cars he needs and all the power he needs, if he runs after his working men and waits on them, he does not get his coal out any cheaper than before.. He gives the man a better chance and there is more efficiency, but at the same time he has increased his expenses all along the line. At the end of the year he finds that his profits have been less than if he had had less efficiency. The efficiency is really against him in many ways. Because he gets a larger tonnage, he reduces the overhead to a certain extent; but hiss tonnage may not be any greater because he may work fewer days. As Mr. Taylor remarked some tine ago, supposing he puts in a machine that is very much more effective than any he had before, he has the same scale; the miner gets out more coal, but he himself does not get any benefit out of it because he has a scale fixed, so much per ton.

Jan 4, 1919

STANDING COMMITTEES Executive-A. R. LEDOUX, chairman. Membership-J. E. JOHNSON, JR., chairman. Finance-J. V. N. DORR, chairman. Library-E. GYBBON SPILSBURY, chairman. Papers and Publications-BRADLEY STOUGHTON, chairman.

Jan 4, 1919

B. F. TILLSON,* Franklin, N. J.-A preliminary study of this paper did not, in my case, succeed in checking with the shovel dimensions of one of the large shovel manufacturers. I therefore raise a question as to there being some difference in standards used by different manufacturers in regard to the dimensions of the shovels for similar sizes and styles, so it may be rather confusing to some of us when we attempt to use the table in this paper and classify the capacity of the shovels as given here with some that are on the market.

Jan 4, 1919

Assistant Professor of Mining Engineering.-Mining engineer to teach mine surveying, mine mapping, assaying, etc., but not metallurgy. Location, Ohio. Salary, $1800 per annum. No. 379. Metallurgist.-Experienced metallurgist capable of running 25-ton blast lead furnace. Man who knows the country and speaks Spanish desired. You may know that this state is in peaceful conditions and that even during the worst time of the revolution there were several mining concerns never idle. Besides, its resources are wonderful, and once a man gets started, he will find many possibilities. Notwithstanding that Sinaloa is a mining state, our smelter will be the only lead smelter on this coast. Location, Culiscan, Sin., Mexico. No. 381. Quarry Superintendent.-Engineer experienced in limestone quarry work for position as superintendent; must be capable of producing results; must increase output of quarries from 4 to 12 cars per day. Young man with abundant energy is desired. Permanent position, chance to grow up with the company. Location, New Jersey. Salary depends upon the man. No. 382.

Jan 4, 1919

JESSE L. JONES, ? Pittsburgh, Pa. (written discussion?).-From a commercial standpoint, the most important characteristic of the electric furnace is the ease with which it lends itself to intensive production. The melting of non-ferrous metals, as usually clone in crucible, open-flame, reverberatory, and similar furnaces, has certain disadvantages which are absent in the electric furnace, viz.:

Jan 4, 1919

EUGENE COSTE, ? Calgary, Alta.-Evidently in Argentine they have a petroliferous province just east of the Andes where very much the same conditions exist as are found on the east side of the Rocky Mountains and in the plains adjacent. It strikes me, though, that the same mistake is being made in Argentine in the exploration for oil as was made in Alberta, Canada; viz., drilling the wells too .near the seepages in the belt in the eastern part of the petroliferous province, too near the mountains. This same mistake was made in Alberta, with disastrous results; viz., only fissure production was found. The strata so near the mountains are tilted at a very strong angle, such as is described in this paper, and the dislocations are intense. On the other hand, we have found that when we get 100 or 200 mi. away from the mountains we get into oil and gas belts which are very prolific. So far our fields in Alberta have been gas, but in Wyoming, as you know, they get many thousands of barrels a day. I have no doubt that conditions in Argentine are exactly similar but that they have so far kept too near the mountains and that they want to explore the belts farther east to obtain better results.

Jan 4, 1919

Secretary of the Interior, Franklin K. Lane, has appointed a commission of five mining and metallurgical experts from the Bureau of Mines and the Geological Survey to visit Europe to observe and study reconstruction methods in the devastated regions of France and Belgium. The chairman of the commission is Dr. Frederick G. Cottrell, chief metallurgist of the Bureau of Mines. The other members are: George S. Rice, the chief mining engineer of the same bureau; Frank H. Probert, consulting engineer of the bureau, and. professor of mining in the University of California; F. J. Cameron, consulting chemist of the bureau and expert on potash matters; and Hoyt S. Gale, of the Geological Survey, another expert on potash.

Jan 4, 1919

In opening the meeting I wish to express my greatest pleasure at being able to greet this joint session of the Mining and Electrical Engineers. As engineering develops, we find that the border lines between the different branches of engineering become more and more indistinct; the several fields overlap so much that they are three or four layers deep in places. It is only an accident that we couldn't have had the Mechanical Engineers also as a formal part of this gathering, because they are quite as much interested in this subject as the Electrical or Mining Engineers. A little history may enlighten some of those who have not been close to this work. A year ago last summer, there was brought to the attention

Jan 4, 1919

A. L. BLOMFIELD, ? Colorado Springs, Colo. (written discussion?).¬I congratulate the author on bringing out a paper of real service to the profession. His contention of uniform size in balls is borne out by my own experience; in coarse crushing at the Golden Cycle in 6 by 6-ft. (1.8 by 1.8-m.) ball-mills we unquestionably gain by screening out the small balls once or twice a month. The point of gaging the ball size to be used by the uniformity of screen sizing is of particular interest. The necessity of sufficient return feed from classifier to the ball-mill is sound and clearly shown. In connection with this, I wish two further points had been gone into as thoroughly: (1) The effect of the quality of classification. In general, it is true that the smaller the per cent. of undersize in the feed the more effective is the mill's work. This is true on a bucking board, in tube-mills, ball-mills, and grinding pans. Given the possibility of returning. a full-feed load to any mill, it has been my experience that the effective work in the grinder is almost proportional to the quality of the return feed. (2) Again speaking generally, the shorter the tube-mill the greater is the quantity of return feed necessary to keep it loaded. The classification thus keeps the oversize in the mill more free from finished product and thus the crushing more efficient. It is very easy to overload any long mill with too much return

Jan 4, 1919

B. F. TILLSON,* Franklin Furnace, N. J.-I would like to ask Major Yerkes if he will not give us more examples of the tests than are contained in the printed pamphlet. It would be of great interest to study them more carefully. ROBERT M. YERKES, Washington, D. C.-The reason for not reproducing the methods in any public print is that it lessens their value and necessitates the preparation of new test materials. BRADLEY STOUGHTON, New York, N. Y.-I hope that this matter will be of so much interest to the members of the Institute that the Directors will decide to appoint a committee which can bring further results of this practice before us. I understand that Columbia University, at least in some departments, has already adopted the B and A tests and is using them. I understand that some industries have considered seriously the question of grading their employees in accordance with

Jan 4, 1919

By T. A. Rickard

We rejoice that the world-war is ended. We are proud of the part played by the English-speaking peoples-all doing equal honor to the traditions they share in common. One of the compensations for the calamity of the past four years is the fact that the Briton and the American, striving together in the cause of human liberty, have learned to understand and to respect each other. The mother country entered the fight resolutely at the beginning, while yet unready to meet the carefully prepared onslaught of the enemy; then the sons from the overseas dominions rallied to the old battle-cry eagerly and effectively; and last, but not least, the stepsons came from across the Atlantic, speaking the same speech, playing the same game, and fighting in the same clean way. It was a great foregathering of those that use the language of Shakespeare and idealize the principles of liberty for which the friends and associates of Shakespeare stood sponsor three centuries ago. At a time like this it is pleasant to dwell upon the fact that the liberal Englishmen who organized the Virginia company were the pioneers of self-government on the American continent. The Virginia Assembly, convoked in 1619, was the first example of a domestic parliament to regulate internal affairs on this side of the Atlantic.2 The Governor of Virginia, Sir Edwin Sandys, had been a pupil of Richard Hooker at Oxford and from that political teacher he and his friends had imbibed the idea of combining civil liberty with constitutional order. To this group of large-minded Englishmen, the American colonists owed their liberal charters and their successive triumphs over the royal prerogative. Let it be noted that the American colonists had to deal with James II and George III, the two smallest minds in the list of British kings. Another historical note more pleasant to record, is the connection between the two principal groups of American settlers. In 1608 when the Pilgrim fathers, William Brewster and John Robinson, led their Separatist congregation to Holland and there prepared the expedition to America, they were assisted by Sandys and the Virginia Council, who were willing to share their privileges with them. When the Pilgrims set sail in 1620 they had the promise, obtained by Sandys from King James, that they should have freedom of worship,

Jan 4, 1919

By Thos Gibson

THE object of taxation is the raising of a revenue. Unless a tax accomplishes this, it is a failure. The right to take for public purposes a part of the moneys obtained from the carrying on of private enterprises is an attribute possessed only by a lawful government, and may indeed he called the supreme attribute of government. In free, democratic communities this power must of necessity rest upon the consent of the governed. Power implies obligation, hence it is obviously the duty of a government, in framing a system of taxation, to provide one which, while effective in producing a revenue, is also just and impartial. It will be conceded that mines and mining property ought to bear a fair share of the public expenditure. The question is, upon what basis taxation should proceed. Two separate taxing principles are usually contended for: Taxation should be proportionate to the benefits received by the person or property taxed; taxation should be based on ability to pay. A third is sometimes added, taxation should have reference to the extent and value of the natural resources enjoyed. As applied to mining taxation, it is pointed out by those who support the first mentioned basis that, mines being usually situated in rocky and hence sparsely peopled regions, mining companies are frequently obliged to construct roads, railways, telegraph and telephone lines, schools, water and sewerage systems, and many other amenities and conveniences of civilization, the cost of which in regions better suited for agriculture and consequently more thickly populated, has either been defrayed locally, or can be spread over a sufficiently large taxable group of people to materially lighten the financial burden on the mine. The mining com¬pany, it is argued, having made these outlays, should receive credit for, them and be relieved of taxation to a corresponding extent. There may be some force in this contention, but the situation is capable of relief without attempting to place taxation upon so unworkable a basis as the value of benefits received. Who is to be the judge of these benefits, and how are they to be valued? The very existence of a mining company and its ability to carry on business in peace and security, depend on the prevalence of law and order, which is a result of good government. The state provides protection against violence, and courts of law for

Jan 4, 1919

During the past 60 or 90 days, the metropolitan newspapers have published much concerning unemployment throughout the nation and the efforts of the Army and various other bureaus for finding work for the returning soldiers. The United States Employment Service has 2000 bureaus throughout the country, which Nathan A. Smyth, Assistant Federal Director, states have placed more than 2,400,000 persons in employment. The Engineering Societies Employment Bureau, which, since December, 1918, has been endeavoring to put all returning engineers in touch with employers who need efficient men, has produced results that are very gratifying to the Secretaries of the four Founder Societies under whose direct management the Bureau operates. During this period, 1615 men have registered at the Bureau's office in the Engineering Societies Building; not all of these, however, are unemployed. Many are ex-army and navy men, who in passing through New York on their way home, look over the field in the hope of making a change for their own benefit before returning to their former positions. During this period, 427 positions vacant have been filed, 2300 of which positions have been filled from the men registered. The letters mailed by this Bureau amount to about 1000 a month and the number of personal calls at the office, 1600. The lowest number of positions filled has been in mining, but the lowest number of registrations is also from mining men. While in February idleness throughout the nation was increasing at the rate of 35,000 a week, under date of Mar. 7, Arthur Woods, a special assistant to Secretary of War Baker, states that there is a material improvement in the unemployment situation and that the problem is no longer a serious one. It is recognized that' the improvement wrought in each individual by his military training and experience has so increased his value that it is 'not only unfair, to ask these men to accept their old jobs at the old wages, but it is probably very unlikely that they will be willing to do so. This plain statement of improvement may not carry conviction to everyone but a concrete example will show its validity. Take the example of a young man under 21, bright and intelligent, with only a high-school education who was employed, before being drafted, on purely manual labor. He shows up well under military training and is made a corporal; he makes good and is appointed a sergeant; and finally becomes top sergeant, which requires him in many ways to handle the entire company of 250 men. The result is; even if he has not been tried by the fire of battle, he comes out of the army with a feeling of self-confidence and capacity that was entirely lacking when he went in and he has had actual experience in handling a larger body of men than the average mine foreman at twice his age, and he has had twice the average amount of detail work to take care of.

Jan 4, 1919