Search Documents

Jan 1, 1916

Jan 1, 1916

By R. E. Somers

Discussion of the paper of R. E. SOMERS, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 101, May, 1915, pp. 957 to 996. A. C. LAWSON, Berkeley, Cal.-One point to which Mr. Graton (in summarizing the paper for us) called attention is that the author had not explained why some copper was fixed in the zone of oxidation. I recollect very well puzzling over that question at Ely, Nev., some years ago. Mr. Sales, in his paper on Butte,1 suggests the explanation. It is clue according to him to the paucity of pyrite in the primary ore. Where there is abundant pyrite sufficient sulphuric acid is formed by oxidation to take all the copper into solution and carry it to lower levels; but where the pyrite is scant so that insufficient sulphuric acid is formed, some of the copper is carbonated and so fixed in the gossan. The hypothesis, or some modification of it, as for example the combination of the sulphuric acid with lime, would appear to explain satisfactorily the fixation of the copper in the gossan as carbonate. I have, however, had no occasion in recent years to study the phenomenon. L. C. GRATON, Cambridge, Mass.-As I remember, the rocks in which the chrysocolla occurs in the Burro Mountains are both silicified and kaolinized. It seems probable that in surroundings deficient in carbon dioxide, complete oxidation of chalcocite may yield chrysocolla up to a maximum of half the copper in the chalcocite; while in rocks, like garnet contact zones and certain easily decomposable porphyries, surface decomposition appears often to yield silica in the necessary form to convert the copper of primary sulphides into chrysocolla immediately and directly upon oxidation.

Jan 12, 1915

By S. E. Bretherton

Discussion of the paper of S. E. BRETHERTON, presented at. the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 104, August, 1915, pp. 1595 to1599. ANTON EILERS, Brooklyn, N. Y. (communication to the Secretary*). While the advantages in the use of high-line siliceous slags in lead smelting which Mr. Bretherton discusses in this paper are obvious under certain economical conditions, he gives me credit for the introduction of such slags when it does not belong to me. It is true I did considerable experimental work, off and on, for the purpose of finding such slags, while at the Germania in 1877 and 1878, but I did not have occasion to introduce any such slags for regular work, because I had no ores which fitted the economical conditions for using high silica and high lime, except in isolated cases for very brief periods. On the contrary, the ores I had to treat were mostly very ferruginous and very low in silica, so that, economically, I was compelled to run nearly always on slags, which allowed me to use the abundant flux I had without cost. It was August Raht who first had occasion to establish and use for long periods a slag high in silica and line, and low in iron. This was when he was confronted with the task of smelting the. Horn-Silver ores at the smelting works at Franklin, Utah, with as little expenditure for fluxing material as possible. I was at that time in Leadville, Col., where, in the new works I had built, the Billings and Eilers smelters, I had occasion to use profitably many slags, but never anything as high in the earthy bases and in silica as Mr. Raht had to use.

Jan 12, 1915

By L. D. Ricketts

Discussion of the paper of L. D. RICKETTS, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 100, April, 1915, pp. 711 to 737. FREDERICK LAIST, Anaconda, Mont.-I am going to tell you of some of the results we have been getting in Anaconda during the past two or three months in a large plant which was finished in May. We commenced work in Anaconda a year and a half ago on the construction of a leaching plant which was to have a capacity of 2,000 tons per day. The plant was to treat tailings from the concentrator, containing about 12 1b. of copper to the ton. During the past year we changed our plans and decided to use the flotation process on the tailings from the concentrator, which contained no oxidized copper, and apply the leaching process only to tailings which had accumulated in a large dump below the works. This dump contains about 15,000,000 tons of tailings, and since some of the copper in it is oxidized, we felt that the application of the flotation process would result in the loss of too much of the oxidized copper, particularly as time went on. In starting up we had a number of difficulties to overcome, as is usually the case. They were not of a serious character. The results obtained, so far, have been decidedly encouraging. During July the plant treated a total of 50,000 tons of tailings, or an average of 1,610 tons per clay. The extraction was about 83 per cent., which, on material of the grade treated, meant a. tailing assaying under 0.1 per cent. copper. The acid consumption was about 65 lb. per ton, and the fuel percentage in. roasting was about 4 ¼ . We expect to cut the fuel percentage in the next month or two to about 3 per cent., the high percentage during July being clue to starting up and shutting clown furnaces. We find that iron builds up in the solution to a marked degree. This is not a serious platter with us, because we have cheap sulphuric acid and can reject solution whenever it gets too foul. The extraction of silver has been remarkably good in the large plant. It has averaged better than 75 per cent. It seems that so long as we maintain salt in the solution to a percentage of 10 per cent., the extraction is good. We allowed the salt to fall off in order to find how low a percentage we could use. At about 7 per cent. the silver extraction fell to 65 per cent. This was to be expected, because silver chloride is soluble in strong brine, but not in weak brine.

Jan 12, 1915

By Rosewell H. Johnson

Discussion of the paper of ROSWELL H. JOHNSON, presented it the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, And printed in Bulletin No. 102, June, 1915, pp. 1291 to 1294. WILLIAM A. WILLIAMS, San. Francisco, CaI.-A sliding. scale of royalties was proposed to the Department of the Interior in connection with the fixing of royalties to be charged upon oil leases made on the Osage Reservation in Oklahoma. The possibility of evasion and difficulty of enforcement required close inspection to satisfy all interests, particularly in connection with the exemption from royalty on oil to equal maintenance and interest on the junk. Mr. Johnson discusses the block method, the period method, and the cumulative method, and favors the adoption of the cumulative method with a proviso that the wells should be permitted to be pumped until the gross income is as low as the maintenance cost, which would mean exemption from royalty on the smallest wells. He recommends that depth be the variable factor upon which the sliding royalty is based and suggests that on partially developed territory in the Osage, the royalty be one-sixth for oil wells averaging less than 2,000 ft. in depth, one-eighth for wells from 2,000 to 3,000 ft., and one-twelfth above 3,000 ft.; for the rest of the Osage he suggests one-eighth above 2,800 ft. and one-twelfth below that depth. The net result, if Mr. Johnson's suggestions had been accepted in the Osage, would have been to reduce the then existing rate of royalty and considerably increase the cost of administration. The difficulties in determining the size of wells to be exempt and the possibility of obtaining oil at different depths in the same well might lead to complications which are avoided by charging a flat royalty as now universally charged throughout the United States. It is not uncommon to reduce the royalty when the production of the wells becomes unprofitable at an existing rate of royalty, accomplishing very much the same results as Mr. Johnson has attempted to accomplish by the cumulative royalties, and probably in a manner far more satisfactory to the operator and the lessor. A. C. MCLAUGHLIN, San Francisco, Cal.-The net revenue of the well depends, first, on the cost of production; second, on the amount of oil produced; therefore it would be impossible under Mr. Johnson's system to set a royalty which would be fair to all concerned. If it is impossible to set it at the beginning, it is certainly further impossible to do it from day to clay. I think it is entirely impracticable of application.

Jan 12, 1915

By Charles A. Mitke

Discussion of the paper by CHARLES A. MITKE, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 105, September, 1915, pp. 1941 to 1958. GERALD SHERMAN, Bisbee, Ariz.-Mr. Mitke justly might have made much stronger his claim for increase in efficiency of labor due to the introduction of forced ventilation. The product per man shift in stoping in the Gardner division has practically doubled. While it is true that improved methods have been responsible for a great part of this gain, and what is due to better ventilation cannot be definitely known, yet it is also true that the results could not have been obtained in that division as it was in 1912. . The paper discusses the two systems of ventilation in use, exhaust and pressure. In both the object is the same, to take foul air or gas out of the mine by the most direct course and replace it by fresh. In coal mines, the exhaust system is in almost universal use, and since the most advanced work in ventilation has been in that class of mines, it was naturally the first one to be considered. It has the advantage of leaving all adits, shafts, or other openings free for use. Doors are only needed to direct the course of the air, and not to confine it. Its disadvantages appear in case of fire, or if the ground over the mine is much broken by subsidence. The fan must work in gas in the case of a -fire, and may be. damaged or destroyed either by heat or by corrosive gas. At the time of the fire in the Lowell division of the Copper Queen, a small exhaust fan was placed over a ventilating raise, but the vanes and housing were destroyed by sulphurous gases within a few weeks. If the ground above the mined area is much broken, as is frequently the case when the ore deposit is thick vertically, a good deal of air is likely to pass through it, particularly if it is near the surface. Leakage from this source is a loss to the exhaust system by short circuiting, which is exaggerated by a contraction or block in the air course. It serves as an added outlet in the pressure system. This is strikingly shown at the United Verde, where many jets of steam may be seen coming up through the ground above the stoped country on a cold day.

Jan 12, 1915

By William G. Kranz

Discussion of the paper of WILLIAM G. KRANZ, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin. No. 101, May, 1915, pp. 927 to 930. M. PETINOT, Niagara Falls, N. Y. (communication to the Secretary*). -I have read this paper with considerable interest and agree perfectly with Mr. Kranz that steel for castings made in an electric furnace is not necessarily, because of that fact, all good steel, and also that the qualities which he mentions, such as absence of segregation, elimination of `sulphur, great tenacity, etc., can be obtained in an electric furnace if operated under proper metallurgical conditions. An unusually low content of sulphur in steel for castings is not, of course, an absolute necessity and the range of this element usually obtained in steel made in basic open-hearth furnaces is sufficiently low to meet all physical requirements. The main factor in making steel for castings, regardless of the process, is the complete deoxidation of the bath to prevent the formation of

Jan 12, 1915

By Zay Jeffries

IT is well known that many properties of a given metal vary with the size of grain or cell. For most industrial purposes, where high ultimate strength and high elastic limit are desired, the manufacturer tries to produce a. fine-grained structure. For some purposes, for example in transformer iron, a coarse-grained structure is desirable. The terms fine-grained and coarse-grained are used only in a relative sense. For example, a fine-grained cast copper might have grains 100 times larger than coarse-grained high-speed steel. Similarly, a fine-grained steel rail might have grains or cells 100 times larger than coarse-grained wire, which was made of steel from the same heat. In some metals, the change in grain size is more appreciable than the changes in any of the properties determined by the tensile test. Furthermore, in metals which have been annealed or subjected to high temperatures, grain size may prove to be a better indication of the life of the metal in use than the tensile test. One of the authors was able to supplant the tensile test with grain-size determinations in the control of. metal for a specific use, the latter determination being more indicative of. the life of the metal part than the tensile test. A grain-size determination with a tensile test is, of course, more valuable than either singly. At present there is a decided dearth of data on actual grain-size determinations in metals, and consequently a corresponding lack of ability to interpret the determinations after they are made. It would be desirable to have correlation made between grain size and properties of metals, comparing thousands of determinations. In this way, grain-size determinations might be interpreted in much the same manner that tensile tests are now.

Jan 12, 1915

By Arthur F. L. Bell

Discussion of the paper of ARTHUR F. L. BELL, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 105, September, 1915, pp. 1769 to 1799. WILLIAM A. WILLIAMS, San Francisco, Cal.-Is the Union Avila plant run as a topping plant or as a dehydrating plant? A. F. L. BELL, San Francisco, Cal.-Both. It takes off an average of 20 per cent. water besides topping the oil. Part of the crude oil is run through an electrical separator before running to the topping plant, but the entire crude averages about 20 per cent. when it enters the topping plant. DAVID T. DAY, Washington, D. C.-I suppose most of the work contemplated in these large topping plants is simply to deal with topping the oils with only a small percentage of water in them. A. F. L. BELL.-Not more than 2 per cent. of water can be handled in ordinary stills without causing trouble. At our Gavotte refinery, where the oil runs from 15 to 30 per cent. water, we carry 20 lb., pressure oil our stills to hold the framing down, we can do that with small stills, with large one's it would not be safe; but with a retort, the quantity of water contained in the oil does not affect its working. It simply means additional fuel to evaporate the water.

Jan 12, 1915

(Members are urged to send in for this column any notes of interest concerning themselves or their fellow-members.) Members and guests who registered at Institute headquarters during the period Oct. to Nov. 10, 1915: Lester S. Thompson, New York, N. Y. Arthur L. Sweetser, Boston, Mass. William Reed, El Oro, Mexico. Dorsey A. Lyon, Salt Lake City, Utah Heinrich Ries, Ithaca, N. Y. D. W. Blaylock has resigned his position with the St. Joseph Lead Co., Bonne Terre, Mo., and has accepted the position of division engineer for the Big Creek Coal Co., of Chicago, at Harrisburg, Ill. R. B. Lamb announces the removal of his office to Room 1809, 43 Exchange Place, New York, N. Y. C. C. Sanders has taken a bond and lease on the Red Mountain group of 34 mining claims (copper), Patagonia, Ariz., and has commenced extensive development.

Jan 12, 1915

By D. A. Lyon

Discussion of the paper of DORSEY A. LYON and ROBERT M. KEENEY, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 104, August, 1915, pp. 1707 to 1730. LAWRENCE ADDICKS, Douglas, Ariz.-I think papers of this character, while general in, nature, are of particular value and interest, because when we figure on competing with the East in electrometallurgical industries, on account of the cheap power on the Pacific Coast, we have to take two or three things into account. In the first place, power very rarely amounts to more than 20 per cent. of the total cost of an operation, even .though it be electrometallurgical, and I think it is the common opinion among those who are not familiar with those particular industries, that it amounts to more than 50 or 60 per cent. Take copper refining; we may say that it is 15 per cent. of the total cost. In the second place, around New York City, with 100 per cent. load factor and a reasonably large load, say 10,000 kw., we can generate from a certain class of coal 1 kw.-hr. for about 0.3c. I might say, however, that 0.3c. does not include overhead charges, interest on the investment, etc. The third factor we have to consider out here is that any product to be salable, must command a retail market. It would be useless to produce wire bars here on the Pacific Coast because there is no place to roll them. If we were going to establish a copper refinery, that part of its output which goes into wire bars would have to be taken care of by building a rolling mill alongside of it to turn it into wire and finally make a product that is salable. I do not think, however, that Mr. Lyon need have excluded copper refining from his industries. There are perhaps 50,000,000 lb. of copper a month refined in this country on a custom basis. I think the smelting companies would be very glad to build refineries here if conditions warranted it. The recent extensions of the Great Falls refinery and of the Tacoma refinery in the last few months give evidence of that.

Jan 12, 1915

The Mining Engineering Society of the State College of Washington, Pullman, Wash., has elected the following officers for this semester: F. MASON, President, WILLIAM WHITE, Vice-President,. L. E. TRAEGER, Secretary and Treasurer. The Society holds meetings every two weeks at which papers on mining and metallurgical topics are presented by students and members, of the faculty. At the meeting of Oct. 25, Prof. H. R. Robbins gave an interesting talk upon the Rankin Process for the treatment of base-metal ores. In this process the metals are extracted by the use of nitric acid, the acid -being recovered almost entirely. Prof. Robbins thinks the process has great possibilities, but it has not yet been worked on a commercial scale. The Missouri Mining Association, the student organization at the Missouri School of Mines, Rolla, Mo., has. elected the following officers for the ensuing year: L. W. EHLERS, President, H. A. KLUGE, Treasurer, J. G. REILLY, Vice-President, N. E. RITTER, Secretary.

Jan 12, 1915

By Lester A. Blackner

Discussion of the paper of LESTER A. BLACKNER, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 102, June, 1915, pp. 1249 to 1290. SIDNEY J. JENNINGS, New York, N. Y.-In the historical part of the development of the caving system discussed by Mr. Blackner, I notice the absence of one man's name, Charles Henroten. Mr. Henroten used the caving system in South Africa in the. Kimberly mines, and realized from his work there that ground would cave when properly prepared. I think it is due him that his name should be mentioned in connection with an exposition of this system in America.

Jan 12, 1915

By G. H. Clevenger

Discussion of the paper of ALLAN J. CLARK presented at the San Francisco meeting, September 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 103, July, 1905, pp. 1381 to 1398. G. H. CLEVENGER, Palo Alto, Cal.-Since the precipitation of extremely dilute solutions as regards cyanide presents one of the greatest problems of zinc-dust precipitation, I should like to ask Mr. Clark the minimum concentration in cyanide of the solution from which it is possible to precipitate satisfactorily the gold with zinc dust in Homestake practice. A. J. CLARK.-For a day's work about 0.015 per cent. That is precipitating a very low-grade solution, very low in alkalinity. It requires probably 0.2 lb. of zinc dust to the ton. JOHN A. FULTON, Melones, Cal.-At the Melones mine, we have been working very low-grade rock for a number of years, the process being amalgamation and concentration up to the last year. The value of the ore increased so that we had to supplement the concentration with a sand and slime plant. Classification was a problem, since to install classifiers would mean tearing the mill all to pieces. We are therefore making use of a Wilfley table for this purpose. The amount of wash water is increased and a stream of fresh water is also run into the feed box at the

Jan 12, 1915

New York Meets first Wednesday after first Tuesday of each month. DAVID H. BROWNE, Chairman. JOHN H. JANEWAY, Vice-Chairman. F. E. PIERCE, Secretary, 35 Nassau St., New York, N. Y. P. A. MOSMAN, Treasurer. LEWIS W. FRANCIS. BENJAMIN B. LAWRENCE. Boston Meets first Monday of each winter month. HENRY L. SMYTH, Chairman. ALFRED C. LANE, Vice-Chairman. HENRY A. WENT WORTH,. Secretary-Treasurer, 60 India St., Boston, Mass. A. H. EUSTIS. F. G. STANTIAL. Columbia Holds four sessions during year. Annual meeting in September or October. FRANK A. ROSS, Chairman. RUSH J. WHITE, Vice-Chairman. LYNDON K. ARMSTRONG, Secretary-Treasurer, P. O. Drawer 2154, Spokane, Wash. FREDERIC KEFFER. - FRANCIS A. THOMSON.

Jan 12, 1915

I. MCLAUGHLIN, R. P.-Protecting California Oil Fields from Damage by Infiltrating Water. Discussed by M. E. Lombardi, A. F. L. Bell, A. C. McLaughlin, R. P. McLaughlin, William A. Williams, Mark L. Requa, C. D. Keen 2413 BEST, W. N.-Petroleum as Fuel Under Boilers and in Furnaces. Discussed by William A. Williams, Hennen Jennings, David T. Day, Mark L. Requa, A. F. L. Bell, W. N. Best 2420 JOHNSON, ROSWELL H.-Sliding Royalties for Oil and Gas Wells. Discussed by William A. Williams, A. C. McLaughlin, A. F. L. Bell, Roswell H. Johnson 2423 BELL, ARTHUR F. L.-Important Topping Plants of California. Discussed by William A. Williams, David T. Day, A. F. L. Bell 2426 LOMBARDI, M. E.-The Cost of Maintaining Production in California Oil Fields. Discussed by C. D. Keen, Mark L. Requa, H. M. Bacon, M. E. Lombardi 2427 HUNTLEY, L. G.-Oil, Gas, and Water Contents of Dakota Sand in Canada and United States, Discussed by E. W. Shaw 2428

Jan 12, 1915

The members of the Institute will recall the account given in the March Bulletin of the inauguration exercises of the Engineering Foundation which was inhibited by an initial gift of $200,000 by Mr. Ambrose Swasey, to be administered by the United Engineering Society as trustees. The Engineering Foundation Board is now constituted as follows: GANG DUNN, Chairman, EDWARD D. ADAMS, Vice-Chairman FREDERICK R. HUTTON, Secretary, JOSEPH STRUTHERS, Treasurer, American Society of Civil Engineers. J. WALDO SMITH, CHARLES WARREN HUNT.

Jan 12, 1915

By E. T. Dumble

Discussion of the paper of E. T. DUMBLE, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin No. 104, August, 1915, pp. .1623 to 1638. E. L. DEGOLYER, Norman, Okla. (communIcatIon to the Secretary*).-Referring to Mr. Dumble's description of the stratigraphy of eastern Mexico, I should like to question the classification of the ?Papagallos? or ?Mendez? shales as being of Cretaceous age and the so-called overlapping of the Papagallos or Mendez shales by the Alazan shales; the classification of the San Felipe series as Cretaceous, and the correlation of the San Felipe series with the San Juan limestones. Mr. Durable apparently recognizes the continuity of the great shale formation by his use of the terms "Papagallos" and "Mendez," as equivalent and interchangeable, since the Papagallos Hills in the State of Nuevo Leon and Mendez Station in Northern Vera Cruz, localities at which the shale formation outcrops, and from which the formation names are taken, are approximately 250 miles apart and on opposite sides of the Tamaulipas barrier. The Papagallos shales (evidently referring here to the northern extension only) are said to be non-fossiliferous and no reason for .their Cretaceous classification is given, though in a previous article' they are classified as Cretaceous because at their northernmost outcrop they "have the same relation toward the overlying Tertiary that the Escondido (Cretaceous) has through its whole extent." The Alazan fossil locality was found by me and the first collections from it were sent to Dr. Dall; about 17 species of marine invertebrates were recognized by him, the fauna noted as having a distinct Pacific tincture, and the age of the formation from which they cause pronounced lower Eocene. The outcrop of the shale formation has been traced continuously from this point by me and my assistants into the Panuco River region, where Eocene fossils are reported at a depth of 1,810 ft. in a well at Topila.2 From Topila the formation has been traced continuously north to the Padilla-Jiminez region in Central Tamaulipas. Lithologically, the formation is fairly constant and though I am only generally acquainted with it north of the Padilla-Jiminez region, until definite evidence of the Cretaceous age of the Papagallos shale in its type localities, or of an overlap, is available, it seems to me more logical to consider the shale formation a single stratigraphic unit of Eocene age.

Jan 12, 1915

By R. P. McLaughlin

Discussion of the paper of R. P. McLaughlin, presented at the San Francisco meeting, September, 1915, and printed in Bulletin 'No. 108, December, 1915, pp. 2313 to 2319. M. E. LOMBARDI, Berkeley, Cal.-Mr. Bell, I would ask you to state before the meeting what you said to me the other day, about the final recovery of oil from oil sands that have become inundated with water. A. F. L. BELL, San. Francisco, Cal: In stating my opinion, I give it with certain qualifications. In the Kern field, and possibly in some others, I think we will eventually get all the oil out, whether the water comes in or not, since it is peculiarly constructed, being in the form of a partial dome. In 1909, while I was field manager of the Associated Oil Co., I installed some large air compressors to handle the water. At that time the oil had migrated to the higher and more shallow portions of the field, because the water had inundated the deeper sections. The result was that the shallow districts within the center of the dome were in many, cases producing as much or more oil per well than the deeper wells. And in the inundated sections the water had slowly spread over large areas, so that nothing but water was pumped from them. Under these conditions, we decided to pump the wet. well with air, and installed four 2,000-cu. ft. compressors. The air was compressed and forced into the wet wells at, about 250 lb. pressure. Shortly the inundated district that had produced almost all water and only about 150 bbl. of oil a day increased its production to over 2,000 bbl. of oil per day. It was not-long before, we noticed that the production of the shallow territory was falling off to such an extent that in many cases the wells were abandoned; at the same time the area of the water-inundated district was greatly reduced, showing that when the water pressure was reduced the oil migrated back to the lower depth. The wells which at first had had the air jets put into them finally produced so much oil that we had to take the 'air jets out and return to the use of the beam pump, because it is not commercially feasible to pump, an oil of 14° gravity with air. To handle such oil profitably by air, it must carry with it 50 to 90 per cent. of water. The results have led me to believe that oil monoclines, where there is a gradual rise to a certain point, or in plunging anticlines, even though water gets into oil sands, eventually we get the larger percentage of the oil. However, the man with a small acreage in the deeper sections may find some morning that his oil has gone, another man in some higher portion of the district having gotten it.

Jan 12, 1915