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By John Philip Zannaras

John Philip Zannaras (Registered Professional Engineer, Congress, Ariz.)- The authors show in their [Fig. 4] the cumulative results of grinding with two sizes of bails, one 30 mm and the other 20 mm. The Gaudin-Meloy probability for breakage for a single fall used by the authors in their paper is given by their [Eq. 6]. Another form of [Eq. 6] is given by Gaudin-Meloy in their paper as follows: [ ] From the definition of A given by Gaudin-Meloy it is obvious that A30 is greater than A., it therefore follows from the foregoing equation that according to the Gaudin-Meloy formula the probability of breakage for a single fall of all the balls in the 20-mm experiment was more than 2.25 times the probability of breakage in a single fall of all the 30-mm balls which is contradicted by the authors' experimental evidence in [Fig. 4] in which is shown that much more grinding took place with the 30-mm balls. In fact the authors present convincing evidence that the Gaudin-Meloy work is erroneous because their work is based only on a geometric configuration and on ambiguous and uncertain definition of A and disregards the fact that the distribution of fracture depends on other important and indispensable factors including the intensity of stress caused on the feed grain by the balls. That there is an immense and chaotic variation of stresses caused on the feed grains by the balls is shown by a formula, derived by this writer and published in 1955. The derivation of this formula is given in the Appendix of this discussion; it contains the variables in the operation of ball mills and is based on the science of mechanics-not on probabilities. [ ] where T is the unit stress in pounds per square inch produced by the moving load, h is the height in feet through which P has fallen, E is the modulus of elasticity of the rock, P is weight of one ball, and L is the size of the grain (assumed to be a cube of side L). It will be shown by this writer's formula that when a 30-mm ball strikes any size of feed grain it will cause 1.837 times higher stress than the 20-mm ball when striking the same size grain. It will be shown that when the 30-mm ball or the 20-mm ball strikes a feed grain of 0.1 mm it will cause 90 times more stress on the grain than when it strikes a 2-mm grain.

Jan 1, 1974

By C. W. Hunt

I wish to register strong disagreement with the choices of drilling sites chosen by the Continental Scientific Drilling Committee, while endorsing the stated objectives. Of special significance is the lack of any site involving the metals most needed today in the US, while 9 to 13 km of drilling are allocated to gold and silver districts and 11 to 17 km to base metal (mainly copper) districts. Why is nothing proposed for platinum group or chromite? Is this because the committee did not know of such a site? If so, I offer such a site in California (see Fig. 1). The mineralization shown in Table 1 occurs in a large peridotite body in western Tehama County, CA. Petrography has demonstrated unequivocal evidence of migrated PGE deposited in peridotite and chromite of hypabyssal nature. Active diapirism (due probably to serpentine buoyancy) above a reactivated mantle to surface conduit marks the position of the conduit. Young explosion breccia cemented loosely by volcanic glass and tuff demonstrates the significance of the conduit as the prime source of the various emissions. Deep drilling could result in major metals discoveries as well as shedding light on the grand questions of platinum group mineralization. What role water has played in this occurrence is not yet certain; but chlorine and asphaltite have been detected in and adjacent to native PGM, suggesting a major role for water. The explosion breccia suggests that this excellent site could overlie entrapped geothermal steam.

Jan 1, 1988

By C. Meyer, J. J. Eidel

C. W. Hunt I wish to register strong disagreement with the choices of drilling sites chosen by the Continental Scientific Drilling Committee, while endorsing the stated objectives. Of special significance is the lack of any site involving the metals most needed today in the US, while 9 to 13 km of drilling are allocated to gold and silver districts and 11 to 17 km to base metal (mainly copper) districts. Why is nothing proposed for platinum group or chromite? Is this because the committee did not know of such a site? If so, I offer such a site in California (see Fig. 1). The mineralization shown in Table 1 occurs in a large peridotite body in western Tehama County, CA. Petrography has demonstrated unequivocal evidence of migrated PGE deposited in peridotite and chromite of hypabyssal nature. Active diapirism (due probably to serpentine buoyancy) above a reactivated mantle to surface conduit marks the position of the conduit. Young explosion breccia cemented loosely by volcanic glass and tuff demonstrates the significance of the conduit as the prime source of the various emissions. Deep drilling could result in major metals discoveries as well as shedding light on the grand questions of platinum group mineralization. What role water has played in this occurrence is not yet certain; but chlorine and asphaltite have been detected in and adjacent to native PGM, suggesting a major role for water. The explosion breccia suggests that this excellent site could overlie entrapped geothermal steam.

Jan 6, 1987

By Walter W. Bradley

(Three, papers included, in this discussion are classified as Mining Geology and also as one of the following-A, Metal Mining: B, Milling and Concentration: L, Geophysics. These papers are TP 2255, TP 2092 and TP 2038.) CONTENTS [PAGE Review of Fluorescence as Applied to Minerals, with Special Reference to Scheelite. (TP 1967 by J. W. VANDERWILT, Min. Tech., March 1946. Discussion by WALTER W. BRADLEY) I Geologic Interpretation of Magnetic Exploration on the Mesabi Range, Minnesota. (TP 2038 by R. B. H. JONES, Min. Tech., July 1946. Discussion by ROBERT B. SOSMAN) I A Technique for Photographing Difficult Subjects through a Petrographic Microscope. (TP 2092 by DONALD W. SCOTT, Min. Tech., Nov. 1946. Discussion by HORACE WINCHELL) 2 The Search for Concealed Deposits-a Reorientation of Philosophy. (TP 2146 by SAMUEL G. LASKY, Min. Tech., May 1947. Discussion by T. M. BRODERICK)3 Occurrence of Lead-zinc Ore at Iron King Mine, Prescott, Arizona. (TP 21 go by H. F. MILLS, Min. Tech., July 1947. Discussion by HUGH M. ROBERTS)3 Geologic Relations and New Ore Bodies of the Republic District, Washington. (TP 2197 by LAWRENCE B. WRIGHT, Min. Tech., July 1947. Discussion by AUGUSTUS LOCKE and J. A. RICHARDSON) 4 San Manuel Prospect. (TP 2255 by H. J. STEELE and G. R. RUBLY, Min. Tech., Sept. 1947. Discussion by L. KENNETH WILSON, ELDRED D. WILSON and the author) 5] Review of Fluorescence as Applied to Minerals, with Special Reference to Scheelite WALTER W. BRADLEY*-AS I recall, the first portable units for ultra-violet light of practical use with scheelite were developed at the Nevada-Massachusetts Tungsten Mine at Mill City, Nevada, and were used underground. Ultra-violet lamps are also installed there in the mill, above the gravity-concentration tables, for control observations. Geologic Interpretation of Magnetic Exploration on the Mesabi Range, Minnesota ROBERT B. SOSMAN*-When artificial precipitated magnetite is oxidized at a temperature in the vicinity of 100°C, the oxide is converted into a chocolate brown ferric oxide of the formula Fe2O3, free from ferrous iron, yet possessing the same magnetic susceptibility as the original Fe3O4. This form of Fe2O3 is variously called "ferromagnetic ferric oxide," " maghemite," or "gamma ferric oxide," and has been found as a natural mineral. If a body of magnetite in the Biwabik were to oxidize to this form, the oxidized and leached ore body might successfully conceal itself from Mr. Jones' survey by this ferromagnetic pretense. So far, gamma ferric oxide has not been found on the Minnesota iron ranges. I thought I had found some in the Hibbing pit in 1940, in a strongly magnetic specimen of soft ore differing in color from the prevailing hematite

Jan 1, 1947

By M. M. Botz, F. W. DeVries

Discussion by F.W. DeVries Comments on natural cyanide attenuation. The paper by Botz and Mudder in the November 2000 issue of Minerals and Metallurgical Processing had one disappointing aspect. Table 1 (p. 229) failed to include a significant species - neutral copper cyanide (CuCN). This compound has been most trouble-some in many plant-scale cyanide cleanup processes, includ- ing acidification-volatilization- reneutralization (AVR), hy- drogen peroxide cleanup and air/SO2 cleanup. It has also plagued many pilot efforts to use ion-exchange (IX) resin technology. This author elucidated the concept that, under some conditions, copper cyanide failed to precipitate out of treated effluents and appeared to exist as a filterable colloid that reported as copper and cyanide, with the latter measured as WAD (weak-acid-dissociable) cyanide in that analytical method. The concentrations measured were very near the levels of 0.2 ppm, often the regulatory limit for WAD cyanide. The copper concentration, using the 1 : 1 ratio for this com- pound, would then be more than 0.4 ppm, which could also be unacceptable. We discovered that it was unsafe to assume that the Cu(CN),- would surrender both cyanide ions simultaneously and allow cupric copper to be removed subsequently as, say, cupric ferrocyanide (Hatchett's Brown). This compound could be ignored as safely as the "iron blues," as essentially an inert solid, stable in geologic time if not exposed to sunlight. Under poorly controlled oxidation of the cyanocuprite ions (copper with four, three or two cyanides complexed to the copper), CuCN could well be formed and could not be assumed to precipitate out as a solid. The authors of the paper, by failing to include the CuCN species in their model, may have left users of the model prone to ignore the possible occurrence of the colloidal(?) form in the discharge, thus finding an effluent that failed to meet regulatory limits. (See addendum below.) This somewhat ephemeral material may well have been responsible for some large-scale failures of cyanide destruction technology to succeed at sites in North America and elsewhere. Two specific references alluding to this occurrence may be found: Griffiths et al., 1987, "The detoxification of gold-mill tailings with hydrogen peroxide," Journal of the South African Institute of Mining and Metallurgy, September, p. 282. DeVries, 1989, "Improved understanding in detoxification of cyanide leach liquors using peroxide" Rand01 Gold Conference, Sacramento CA, p. 15 1. It is advisable for workers in this area of cyanide removal or recycle to avoid assuming that CuCN will, with certainty, precipitate out of solution, or that the dicyanocuprite ion will part simultaneously with both cyanide ions and allow cupric copper to be dealt with by other reactions. One further piece of work may be incomplete. That is, a definitive study of the long-term behavior of CuCN that does precipitate when exposed to other compounds present in neutralized tailings. Addendum. The extremely complex reaction of cupric ion on cyanide- which, of course, results in oxidation of cyanide to cyanate, probably through the intermediate stage of forming cyanogen [(CN)2] from oxidation of HCN with its hydrolysis to cyanate and cyanide ion - involves two cyanide moieties and the reduction of the cupric ion back again to the cuprous state. This, then, can form the CuCN potential "solid" that was already the undesirable species. In cyanide cleanup, with either air/SO2 or hydrogen peroxide, copper is generally employed as the catalyst, so it is unclear what happens when the CU(CN)2-1 is ultimately exhausted. Certainly, the field evidence is quite clear that all

Jan 1, 2002

By E. M. Spokes

A.B. Rushton The work and resulting publications of the Committee on Underground Coal Mine Safety and The President's Commission on Coal were appropriate at the time of publication. The statistics cited in the publications appeared to be valid, and the actions proposed by the committee had merit. Although the actions proposed to achieve further improvements in safety may have been worthy of repeating, to associate statistics (Table 1) that are seven to eight years old with company names is bad. Statistics are readily available from the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) and are usually within three months of being up to date. A review of the most recent Coal Controlling Co. Report will reveal significant changes in the rankings. The more recent statistics should have been cited, or at least compared with those used in the article. Westmoreland Coal Co. is listed as having a 21.1 disabling injury rate for the period (1/78-12/80). The disabling injury rate for the Company for the year ending 1985 was 7.4 for the underground mines and 6.25 for the total facilities. Through March 1986, the disabling rate for the underground mines was 2.86. The management and employees of Westmoreland Coal Co. are committed to safety. The improvements achieved over the past five years attest to that commitment. We are justifiably proud of the achievement and dislike being misrepresented as in the April 1986 article. Reply by E.M. Spokes I regret that the lapse of time since the original work gives a picture of safety practice that is no longer true today. That Westmoreland has reduced its disabling injury rate by 65% to 7.4 in 1985 is most commendable, and I congratulate you for this accomplishment. It is typical of the progress sought by the National Academy of Science and National Research Council when they funded the original study and published "Toward Safer Underground Coal Mines" in 1982. If a significant number of companies do as well as Westmoreland, the report will have served its purpose. Since the paper was primarily a condensation of the original report, it would not have been appropriate to seek access to later statistics. The purpose in seeking its publication at the time of presentation was to reach those who might have missed the original report. The fact that publication was delayed has not voided that purpose and may have reminded some who were aware of the original that its recommendations still apply to improvement of underground coal mine safety.

Jan 6, 1986

George A. Packard, Boston, Mass. (communication to the Secretary†):—The very interesting results obtained by Prof. Hofman and his assistants came to my attention when I had temporarily assumed charge of the metallurgical department of the Missouri School of Mines, and had found it, pending the completion of a new building, lacking a furnace in which to roast ore preparatory to the customary lead blast-furnace run. An attempt at lime-roasting had been already determined upon, but the use of a charge which would make a slag of definite composition was a new idea. The results following were obtained by Messrs. Aubrey Fellows, J. C. Long, E. R. Wash, and Dr. T. C. Tseung, under my supervision. It is regretted that the data are not more complete; but the work was done simply incidentally to securing the desired ore for the blast-

Jan 1, 1908

Mr. John J. Porter, Chicago Ill. (communication to the Secretary†):—Mr. Baker's account of his experiences with stock-distribution has been particularly interesting to me, as it

Jan 1, 1905

Edward A. UehlinG, New York City (communication to the Secretary*):—Mr. Baker's paper is one that brings up a subject of great importance, and if full statistics could be collectecl of the number of furnace-linings ruined by reason of bad distribution by skip-hoists, it would be found an astonishing array. Unfortunately a universal remedy has not yet been found. The fact that Mr. Baker has apparently succeeded in overcoming the trouble at Sydney, is no guarantee that the same remedy applied at another plant, where very different or even slightly different conditions prevail, mould cure the trouble. That it requires but a slight continuous difference of penetrability in the column of the descending stock of one section, over another, to produce channeling, is clearly demonstrated by Mr. Baker's experiments, by which he reversed the channeling from front to rear instead of remedying the trouble. Every change in the physical make-up of the charge necessarily requires a specific adjustment; even supposing this feasible, the regular working of the furnace is by no means assured, because with the high pressures now customary, the tendency of the ascending gases to plow their way through in a direct course, prevails, and having once opened up a passage, they will persist and cause trouble. Homogeneous filling-, hard driving and regularity of working are incompatible. The higher the furnace, the greater the

Jan 1, 1905

F. E. Bachman, Port Henry, N. T. (communication to the Secretary*):—In discussing Mr. o.o.Laudig's paper, the Action of Blast-Furnace Gases Upon Various Iron-Ores,' I took the ground that Mesabi-ore explosions were entirely mechanical; but more observation and later experience has caused me to

Jan 1, 1905

Theo. B. ComstocK, Los Angeles, Cal. (communication to the Secretary*):—Mr. Blake's recent paper upon this topic undoubtedly partly explains the rationale of a part of the known facts bearing upon discolorat'ion and encrustation of rocks. His quotation from Humboldt, with reference to certain South American examples, may be questioned in the light of further facts, which do not appear to bear out the great traveler's theory of causation. There is no available evidence that the waters of the tropical rivers referred to by Professor Blake contain dissolved organic matter in the varying proportions required to demonstrate Humboldt's guess, nor do the concomitant facts in any manner bear out the hypothesis that the blackening in one case and its absence in the other may, perhaps, be traced to differences in the chemical reactions of the respective waters. Careful consideration of Professor Blake's illustrations, in connection with numerous personal observations extending over widely-scattered areas, convinces me that elements of

Jan 1, 1905

Edward Keller, Baltimore, Md. (communicatioin to the Secretary*):—It is pleasing to note the increasing amount of work on metallurgical problems that is being carried on by exact scientific methods, and the results of such labor issued by the laboratories of our universities. Without doubt, Mr. Bolles's paper will be welcomed by all progressive practitioners. Many of the results which Mr. Bolles presents to as are new; and I take exceptioil to a few minor points only. The first of his concluding remarks is as follows: "Mattes are not homogeneous, but are composed of distinct mineral entitier, and may be likened to igneous rocks, in which the mineral constituents fall out upon the lowering of the temperature and ensuing solidification." He quotes an introductory remark to a paper1 of mine, as follows: "The true chemical character of copper-mattes does not yet seem to have been definitely determined, i.e, it is still more or less of an open question whether they are true chemical compounds, or mixtures, such as igneous rocks." This quotation, taken alone, would convey the impression that Mr. Bolles's conclusion is entirely new. Had he quoted also another paragraph from my paper in question, it would be clear that he was, to a certain extent at least, anticipated. I take the liberty, therefore, to state the substance of my own work. In the paper referred to, I showed the existence of the phenomenon of liquation in mattes, and, continuing, said: " A more direct method to test whether a matte is a compound sulphide or a mixture of individual sulphides was attempted by applying hydraulic separation. A clean piece of matte was selected containing practically no magnetic oxide and of the following composition: Cu, 37.96; S, 24.45; Fe, 33.63; Zn, 1.25; Pb, 1.02 ; Sb, 0.26 ; As, 0.065 ; insoluble, 1.15 per cent. ; Ag, 26.7 ; Au, 0.04 oz. per ton. For such a test it is essential to select a chemically uniform piece, other-

Jan 1, 1905

A discussion of the paper by Mr. Campbell, which was read by title at the Lake Superior meeting, but first presented at the New York meeting of the Iron and Steel Institute, October, 1904 (see p. 772). These papers are here published onder a mutual agreement between the Councils of the two Institutes, and will also be found in the Journal of the Iron and Steel Institute for the year 1901, vol. ii. Mr. William R. Webster, Philadelphia, Pa., said: We are under great obligation to Mr. Campbell for his exhaustive investigation, and the results he has put before us to-day. They are the most conlplete series of tests that have ever been made, where all the conditions of rolling, etc., were kept uniform. In discussing Mr. Campbell's first investigations, I claimed first, that the method of least squares, then used, would of necessity only gire the average value of any element, and that if the effect of any element was greater in the presence of high carbon than with low carbon this would not be shown by the method of least squares. Secondly, that the effect of manga nese should be considered on acid steel as well as on basic steel, instead of ignoring all the eff'ect of that element when it was below 0.60 per cent., as was then recommended by Mr. Campbell. I am pleased to note that the results of his present investigation confirm my views on these points. In presenting the results of his first investigation, Mr. Campbell referred to my investigation of 1893-94, and took exception to the value of phosphorus varying (depending on the amount of carbon present) from 800 to 1,500 lb. for each 0.01 per cent. He claimed that one might just as well consider the effect of phosphorus as being constant, and of carbon varying. I refer to this, as he now has introduced very similar conditions in his present tables, in that he gives variable values for manganese (depending on the amount of carbon present) for both acid and basic' steels. Can we now say, with more certainty than formerly, which element should be considered as haviup a constant effect ? There is one other point that I took up in my former discus-

Jan 1, 1905

Charles Catlett, Staunton, Va. (communication to the Secretary*):—Mr. Chance's suggestions that the brown hematite-ores of the Potsdam formation are due to the alteration in place of iron sulphide, and that their extension may reasonably he expected to contain valuable deposits of unaltered sulphide, are interesting; hut the facts marshaled by him are too limited

Jan 1, 1909

Albert Ladd Colby, New York, N. Y. (communication to the Secretary†):—I observed (Trans., xxxvii., 585) that to obtain tenders from several American mills, the foreign engineer should modify his maximum phosphorus to 0.10 per cent., not as Mr. E. Windsor Richards quotes me, that no American rail-maker can produce rails under 0.10 per cent. of phosphorus. Mr. Richards claims that no English engineer would agree to accept 0.10 per cent. of phosphorus on any terms whatever. Mr. Webster writes that only after an engineer has .been convinced that rails can be made in America equal in every respect to those he is getting abroad, should he be asked to modify ally conditions in his specifications. I know it to be a fact that during recent years in many cases, as, for instance, When delivery could be secured more promptly in the United States than in Europe, the consulting engineers of several British and colonial railroads have frequently agreed to modify their phosphorus requirement to a maximum of 0.10 per cent., and the rails delivered' under these modified specifications have, under like conditions, given just as satisfactory service and proved to be no more brittle than similar sections of 0.07 per cent. phosphorus rails, rolled in England under the same specification except without modification as to phosphorus. Furthermore, it would appear from the analyses of British rails, quoted by E. A. Dancaster,2 in his discussion of Mr.

Jan 1, 1908

James GayleY, New Pork City (communication to the Secretary*) :—The main thing that is sought after in this matter is that all purcliases shall be made by analysis. This is done already in special lines, as in the manufacture of various grades of steel in which phosphorus, silicon and sulphur are specified within narrow limits, and I quite agree with Mr. Cook that specifications, which are over-rigid in unessential particulars, should be avoided, as they defeat their own purpose because unreasonable requirements permitting no variation are practically not fulfilled, and it is impossible to specify grade

Jan 1, 1905

Discussions of the paper of Mr. Gayley read by title at the Lake Superior hieeting, but first presented at the New York meeting of the Iron and Steel Institute, October, 1904 (see p. 746). With the exception of Mr. Pourcel's discussion (p. 1038), these papers are here published under a mutual agreement between the Councils of the two Institutes, and will also be found, with others, in the Journal of the Iron and Steel In-slitute for the pear 1904, Mr. E. Windsor Richards, Past-President,' said that in 1799 Mr. Dawson, of Low Moor, read a paper before a scientific society in York pointing out the great diff'erence in the moisture of the air going into the blast-furnace in the hot months of the year and in the winter months. A cold blast-furnace was a very sensitive instrument, and showed this very clearly, for in June, July and August the furnace did not drive so well; it did not make the quality of iron and required more fuel; so that Mr. Gayley was on the right road to effect an enormous improvement in this direction. He considered that Mr. Gayley was on the way to great success, and hoped that the apparatus would not be a very expensive one. He supposed it mas too early for Mr. Gayley to let them know what the saviug was

Jan 1, 1905

Edward A. UehliNg, New York City (communication to the Secretary*):—In adding my mite to the discussion, I wish to touch on a few points which bear emphasizing and perhaps a little further elucidation. Mr. Grammer says that he "found the electric pig-breaker at Duquesne, if used in connection with the iron-chill, less expensive and more satisfactory " thau the casting-machine. The cost of handling the iron over the Duquesne casting-niachine is about double the average cost of the other Uehling machines at the several Carnegie plants. It is nearly as expensive to run as the Hey1 & Patterson machines, and while Mr. Grammer's statement is, no doubt, true, as applied to that particular machine and breaker, it should be borne in mind that the machine at Duquesne had embodied in it several new features, which were not improvements; also that it was taxed beyond its economic capacity. The machine at the Lucy furnaces under the management of Mr. Scott handled the output of the two furnaces, and saved

Jan 1, 1905

Jan 1, 1908

JAmes E. Howard, Watertown, Mass.:—In connection with this paper, it is the desire of the Watertown laboratory to receive suggestions as to the lines of work and the particular direction along which the examination of the ingot-metal should proceed, and any suggestions so offered will be noted with care, and the tests conducted so as to embrace such features as it is thought desirable to have investigated. To me the question of structural continuity seems of para-

Jan 1, 1909